Wednesday, September 1, 2010

Rage, Achilles and the Death of Hector

Another fun class today guys and thanks again for all the interesting and insightful comments on Book I.

We discussed a few important things ranging from the civil disobedience of Achilles to the submission to the status quo of Nestor. We resisted pigeon-holing any one character into the paradigms of heroic and cowardly by stressing the differences between physical and moral strength, authoritative and self-determinate power. We also, or at least in the first class, thought about the difference between the courage of aggression or offensive strength and the courage of defense or endurance. We didn't discuss any of these things fully but at least we are begining to note the ambiguities that are sometimes dormant in our basic understanding of courage and what constitutes the defining characteristics of heroic individuals.

Now for the next class, I want us to think about cowardliness and whether such behavior eliminates courage. Is courage a zero-sum game? Do you have it or not, if you don't at one moment, can you regain it in another? Or is courage a habit, a disposition, something that you can eventually acquire etc. Here we should also be thinking about the role of fear. Is the coward simply one who fears or can the courageous also fear, should they fear? Can one who isn't afraid truly be courageous?

In this vein, I am asking for the next class to tell me what you think of Hector's "flight." Did he behave cowardly? If so, does this take away from his courage? If not, how do you excuse his flight?
 
Cheers,
Dr. Layne

(PS I don't have much time to give you a synopsis of the events leading to Chapter 22 but if I have time this afternoon, I will try to quickly give you a blow by blow of the greatest war story ever told.)

43 comments:

  1. "Hector looked up, saw him, started to tremble, nerve gone, he could hold his ground no longer, he left the gates behind and away he fled in fear" -p. 546. Clearly, Hector ran away because he was straight up scared of Achilles, a.k.a. cowardly behavior. I don’t think that this so much takes away from Hector’s overall courage so much as it shows that he doesn’t really have any. He stands there ready to fight when Achilles is nowhere to be seen, but as soon as Achilles shows up, Hector takes off running. Hector is only willing to fight when he’s tricked by a goddess into thinking that he has a friend to back him up. If Hector had set up an ambush or trap for Achilles, a retreat would be justifiable. However, this was not a tactical retreat, this was just him running away and stopping only when he thought he outnumbered Achilles 2 to 1.

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  2. I believa that there are different kinds of courage that can arise in different situations. There exists the courage to stand up and fight for something, and there exists the courage to act in accordance with one's beliefs in spite of criticism. For example, if I was fighting Achilles, I could reasonably believe that I would most likely get killed, and, through a respect for the value of my life, I would try to avoid the conflict. This decision would have been considered dishonorable, requiring courage on my part in order to perform the action, even though the action itself is cowardly.
    I believe that someone can obtain courage through certain obstacles in life by increasing motivation. A person would be more likely to show courage in a situation that appeals to that person.
    Fear is defined as "a distressing emotion aroused by impending danger, evil, pain, etc." Fear is not a virtue. It is merely an emotion that can be controlled through sacrifice and practice. Anyone can experience fear, but only some will be affected by their fear because they cannot respond to it effectively. Courageous people should learn to recognize fear for what it is, and then discern whether or not the fear is legitimate. If the fear is legitimate, then appropriate action should be taken in order to protect the well being of the person. If a man is standing in the middle of the road and a car is coming toward him, he should fear that the car will hit him and then get out of the way. If the man moves out of the way, is he a coward?
    Therefore, Hector's actions are not necessarily based off of cowardice but wisdom. Anyone could clearly see that Achilles was the more impressive warrior, and Hector was simply holding off until he received help from Deiphobus to even the playing field.

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  3. All humans are endowed with instinct, all animals are. In cases of danger, these instincts for survival come into play- many behavioral scientists call this "fight or flight" behavior. So with the power of instinct at mind, allow me to interperate the events of book 22.
    Hector begins by making a brave decision- he had made a poor, hubristic decision to camp outside of the walls of the city, and he acknowledges that fact by refusing to surrender and retreat into the city. He stood, "holding his ground" (book 22,line 6). When he had time to consider his options, he chose bravely to defend the city outside of its walls.
    However, when charged at by the most fearsome warrior in...ever, his instincts took over and he fled, letting adrenaline take over. He was scared- that's normal and understandable. After all, courage is not the absence of fear, but in a sense requires fear, as courage involves acting in spite of that fear.
    However, once brought, ironically, back to earthy, rational, thought by a god, he considered his options and stood to fight. Aristotle (I think it was aristotle...) argued that virtue was a habit- something to be cultivated.
    The fact that Hector's first instinct to run suggests that he had not cultivated that habit, but, in the end, his final decision was to fight. Even Achilles says that Hector "never a fear of me" was. Was he hubristic in having the last though of his be about his earthly honor? Perhaps. Cowardly- I don't see how. Human in his fear? Yes. Brave in his thoughts- I think so...

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  4. I'll first start by answering the questions posed about courage. Courage is definitely not a zero-sum game. You can have it at one moment and not in another. For example, if you ran away and left someone in a burning building but then turned back to get them, would you be any less courageous for having gone back just because you ran at first? The courageous can also fear. I've often heard the sayings "courage in spite of fear" or "courage means overcoming your fears" so I believe one who isn't afraid cannot be truly courageous. On that note, I think that Hector's "flight" was not cowardly and thus does not take away from his courage. Like Chad, I think that his actions are wise. Even without knowing anything about Achilles, readers get the sense from King Priam's words that Achilles is much stronger than Hector. "You'll meet your doom at once, beaten down by Achilles, so much stronger than you---that headstrong man." (Lines 46-47) Even Hector states, "He'll show no mercy, no respect for me…" (Lines 147-148) Hector chose the wisest option which, at that point with Achilles bearing down on him, was flight. Stupidity is not courage. It's just stupidity. So Hector's flight was justified. As far as courage goes, it was definitely courageous to run despite knowing that others would berate him for it. "No way out. If I slip inside the gates and walls, Polydamas will be the first to heap disgrace on me." (Lines 118-119) It was also courageous to stop running, albeit Hector did so because of Athena. It was definitely courageous for him to have even thought of standing alone against Achilles in the first place. In conclusion, Hector just did what was right for him in that moment.

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  5. Courage, in all forms, stems from the willingness to meet a challenge. If you examine Hector’s behavior with this definition in mind, he is easily labeled as a coward. As Achilles approaches and the impending challenge becomes clear, Hector “started to tremble” and “fled in fear.” We do not know if it is the confrontation itself, the shame of losing in front of his city, or the possibility of death that makes him run, but one thing is certain: each of these things is a challenge that Hector is not willing to face. The great hero of Troy flees like a coward.
    Later in the book, there are two instances in which Hector seems to show courage, to turn and face his fear. The first is when he finally decides to stop circling the city of Troy and fight Achilles. However, this cannot be considered true courage because he does not find it within himself. This courage is artificial, only appearing when he has external encouragement from Deiphobus (Athena in disguise!). He did not decide to fight on his own. It could easily be said that he is acting obediently here, rather than courageously.
    The second instance of Hector’s apparent courage is when he comes to terms with his imminent death. The vision of Deiphobus has disappeared, and he knows that the gods have sealed his fate, but decides to finish his fight with Achilles rather than giving up. The first time I read this, I actually wrote in the margins: “True courage-- to face death bravely and fight to the end.” However, the more I though about it, the clearer it became that this is not true courage, but yet another masked act of cowardice. Today in class we talked about the fact that Achilles isn’t truly courageous because he knows that he will live a short life. Achilles has nothing to lose, in a sense, so he might as well keep fighting. At this point in the book, Hector is no better than Achilles. He is not risking anything or facing any challenge. He is a coward up to his very last breath.

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  6. While some people may be born more courageous than others, bravery is not exclusively an inherited trait. Courage can be learned over time. People can become more and more brave with each fear and obstacle they overcome. Impressive acts of physical strength or brutality are not equivalent to courage; sometimes fighting is just stupid and juvenille. Courage is being petrified to do something and doing it anyway. But, doing something "scary" for the wrong reasons is also not courageous. Being an idiot and risking your life to show off or becuase you're too stupid to see the danger in something is not courageous.

    Hector is not a coward. He runs from Achilles, who is trying to kill him. What man in his right mind would not try to preserve his own life? In certain situations it may be brave to give up your life for a cause or an idea, but Hector's death did not benefit anyone in any way. Hector was merely being intelligent when he ran from achilles.

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  7. Hector is clearly being a coward when he takes flight, “he could hold his ground no longer, he left the gates behind and away he fled in fear.” With no courage at all it seems, hector runs from Achilles around the city of Troy three times. Then suddenly Hector thinks he has gained courage to fight Achilles (even though the real reason he gains “courage” is because he is convinced by Athena), “I lacked courage then to stand your onslaught. Now my spirit stirs me to meet you face-to-face.” Fighting Achilles doesn’t make him any less of a coward. So in conclusion, Hector had no courage to even start with and didn’t gain any by fighting Achilles face to face.

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  8. Courage is an attribute that can be displayed through one’s actions; a behavior that is so difficult to exhibit and yet can be lost in a split second. While Hector was courageous in his initial decision to stand outside the walls of Troy with utmost determination to slaughter Archilles, throughout the plot we see his courage slowly slipping away. His parents blatantly tell him that he will die in a battle with Archilles and beseech with him to retreat. Hector is fearful of the physical strength of Archilles and has every right to be but this is not what makes him cowardly, actually this makes his act even more noteworthy. The problem lies within the reason that Hector gives for not backing down. It is not because he is standing behind his decision to fight and risk it all but because he is afraid to hurt his ego should Polydamas disgrace him. Already he is regretting his decision to fight, as he says “how much better it would have been” (123) if he had retreated with the other Trojans. Therefore I believe that Hector is no longer acting based on courage but more on pride; two completely different concepts.
    What makes an act truly courageous is when it is challenging and requires great strength whether it is the physical or moral strength we discussed in class. The second Hector sees Archilles approaching he flees the scene desperately trying to outrun Archilles. In conclusion I believe that Hector’s decision to fight was based on nothing but pride hence explaining his quick flight. A courageous person takes a risk unsure of the outcome, when he actually decides to confront Archilles it is only because he believes that he has a god on his side which will guarantee his victory. In light of this I believe that it wasn’t his flight that was cowardly but more the intrinsic reasons he had for not backing down and confronting the situation in the end.

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  9. Hector was a coward, plain and simple. He spoke words of courage and honor, but when the time came, his courage, if ever there, left him. He ran from Achilles; it was only when Athena falsely convinced him that he had an ally that he stopped to face Achilles. There is no courage in this action, only dishonor. Hector has already led his men to destruction, and now he does not even have the honor to face Achilles fairly and either win or die an honorable death. there is no excuse for his flight given the context; it is a time in history when running was simply not an option. Honor above all else was the way of life.

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  10. There are times when running can be seen as courage. It takes courage to run when criticism is sure to come. It takes an extreme courage to be wise and flee, when fleeing can be seen as damaging one's honor. However, this is not one of those cases. His mother and father begged him to enter the gates. They definitely would have thought nothing less of him for fleeing. If Hector had fled in the beginning with his troops, I would have thought nothing less of him, just a wise man. However, since he did start off with the stubborn claim to stay and fight alone against Achilles (primarily because of his guilt), and then fled when Achilles approached, he by no means shows courage or wisdom. In my opinion, Hector's final decision to flee was merely his common sense taking over.

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  11. Regarding the questions of courage, I certainly believe that it is an attribute that can be possessed one moment and lacking in another. However, I would also claim that those who are most highly regarded for their courage are those that lived this idea of bravery in the face of fear mindset as a lifestyle. Those individuals that repeatedly put their lives at risk for a cause of belief show true courage, because it is a courage that is consistent.

    Now, the question arises, "Was Hector a coward?" In my opinion, yes, he was indeed. He stood in front of the city walls waiting for Achilles, only to run in fear and terror from him as he approached. He then turns to run around the city, trying to avoid the inevitable fate of his death. The only time that he shows any sign of courage is when he turns to fight Achilles, based on the false hope of a god to save him.

    In my mind, this raises the question, "Would we consider Hector more prudent and wise if he had waited for a more opportune time to attack Achilles?" In other words, "Would Hector be a hero in the end if he hadn't been so foolish as to wait for Achilles, only to run away?" I believe so. While hiding seems to be a cowardly act, is seems much more prudent to remain safe and strike at a more advantageous moment than to take a stand, only to run away as Achilles approaches. In fact, the latter seems to have more cowardice, because Hector did not stand firm in his decision when difficulty arose, but whatever courage he had failed him as soon as it was put to the test.

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  12. There is little consolation for Hector at his time of death. His hubris caused the rout of the Trojan army, and his own death by Achilles. In the previous book, Hector orders his men to stand outside the city walls (which is generally a poor tactical decision if you have huge walls defending you). They are defeated, routed and would have been obliterated if it wasn't for the intervention of Apollo. Deeply regretting his decision, Hector decides to stand outside the walls of Troy and not retreat like his soldiers. At first, this seems to be an honourable decision: to die with his men. Yet, his men had already retreated. Hector was not taking part in a noble last stand or acting as a martyr. His decisions not only destroyed the Trojan army, but also led to the death of their most brilliant general (Hector himself). The words of Russian Field Marshal Suvorov seem most fitting here: "One minute decides the outcome of a battle, one hour the success of a campaign, one day the fate of empires". Hector's decisions sealed the fate of Troy. Not only did his overconfidence lead to the razing of Troy, but he also acted cowardly in doing so. As noted, his stand outside Troy was foolish, but his fleeing from Achilles was disgraceful. He did not act courageously; he realized that he was going to die, and it wasn't until Athena tricked him into fighting that he stood and fought. Even Hector admitted that he "lacked courage then to stand your onslaught" (Homer 298-299). Since Hector's courage only comes about when he is tricked by Athena-after he ran like a coward around the city multiple times-his final willingness to fight can not be seen as bravery. This is not to say that Hector is a coward, he acted admirably throughout the rest of the war. It can be inferred that he had a very bad few days though.

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  13. Hector’s flight around the city was a cowardly one. Facing Achilles was something Hector feared and he ran from it instead of confronting his fear. However, this fear is completely understandable; it is completely human. Hector believes that if he remains Achilles will “show no mercy, no respect for [him].” He ran because he saw confrontation as sure defeat. While running was cowardly, it was also logical in Hector’s mind. On the other hand, if Hector had had more confidence in himself and believed that he could defeat Achilles, the likelihood that this would have happened would improve significantly. Just by believing in himself (however cheesy that sounds), he would have had a much greater chance of killing Achilles. That Hector does face Achilles in the end is somewhat courageous. He was running from Achilles and did decide to stop and face Achilles. This happened, however, only because Hector thought Deiphobus was there to help him, which does take away from his courage. After Hector realizes that Deiphobus was really just a trick of the gods, he “knew the truth in his heart” that he was going to die. Hector decided this fate himself. If he had had more courage initially, then he could have changed this fate.

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  14. Hector's flight seemed to me like a last second act of desperation. Of course he was scared to death. Did his flight seem cowardly? Essentially, yes it did. "Hector looked up, saw him, started to tremble, nerve gone, he could hold his ground no longer, he left the gates behind and away he fled in fear-" (Homer 546). Homer blatantly said that he was scared and ran away.

    To me, cowardice is defined as not being able to stand tall and firm throughout an entire challenge. In this case, Hector was not able to stand his ground against Achilles until he was deceived by Athena.

    This certainly does not take away from his courage though. Do remember that he eventually did muster up the courage to face Achilles in an one-on-one duel to the death. He could have just kept running and try to avoid Achilles. Instead, he decided to stand and fight. Athena may have deceived Hector by roleplaying as his brother, but Hector could have not listened to his "brother". Instead, he figured that for his glory and honor, he would either kill Achilles or be killed by him.

    I think he had the courage to face Achilles, then he began to doubt himself and his own skill. That was the downfall of his courage. At that point, his doubt was the intermediate between courage and cowardice. Then when Athena deceived Hector, the intermediate was his mindset that he had gotten more strength and power in numbers. This is where his cowardice returned back to courage. Can you lose it and regain it? I think anyone has the courage to do something as long as they are confident in their own abilities.

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  15. I believe that Hector acts cowardly in this situation. However, I do not necessarily believe this takes away from his courage. In class on Wednesday, we discussed how the Greeks valued honor above all else. Hector's situation is a prime example. It is for the sake of honor that he remains outside the walls to meet Achilles; however, his thoughts reveal his want to flee back inside the walls and his refusal to do so due to fear of ridiculing by the men and women of Troy. It is not his fear that makes him a coward. Rather, he acts upon his desire for self-preservation after making a big show of his honor. He doesn't commit to his decision to act.

    Hector is a great warrior, considered the best warrior of Troy. I do not believe that his actions in this single situation negate all of the great acts he has done before. However, I question his previous acts because of the way he considers honor in the fight with Achilles. He considers honor his duty, a quality that defines the courage of an individual. However, his thoughts reveal that his idea of honor merely protects his image. While his actions may hold him a hero to Troy (though I'm not sure what they think about that running away thing), his thoughts reveal otherwise. Doing an honorable act for the wrong reasons (I think we touched on this in class with the boys from Vietnam) may make him a hero, but it does not show pure courage. Honor, therefore, though often lumped with courage, is not the same thing. Honor exists outside the person, a value placed upon an individual or group by another individual or group, while courage exists inside a person.

    That being said, Hector is human, and his actions probably would have been repeated by plenty a hero in the same situation.

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  16. Courage and cowardice can coexiste. One does not prevent the existence of the other. Both qualities can come and go in varying intensities depending on the situation. However, one may still be considered generally courageous or cowardly due to habitually exhibiting one trait or the other. Hector’s situation is an example of courage and cowardice fluctuating. He begins courageous. He exposes himself to far superior opponent because he believes it is necessary in order to regain his pride, “better by far for me to stand up to Achilles, kill him, come home alive or die at his hands in glory out before the walls”. Though selfish, he thinks it necessary and is willing to face something deadly to achieve his goal. To me, this takes a certain amount of courage. However, what was cowardly was not holding to his decision. He lets his fear overtake him and runs. A courageous act would have been to recognize that fear and overcome it. Cowardice is the submission to fear. While I don’t necessarily fault Hector for wanting to preserve his life, I do not think it showed courage to make a decision only to go back on it the second the danger in that decision became real, “Hector looked up, saw [Achillies]… and away he fled in fear”. This act of cowardice negates his initial bravery. Before he dies, Hector is slightly able to redeem himself in my eyes. When he realizes that he is actually alone and Achilles will in all likelihood kill him, Hector does not try to run again. He accepts his coming death and faces Achilles. To me this shows he has recognized his fear of death (show earlier when he runds) but has finally overcome that fear and is willing to face it. Though Hector’s initial courageous stand is stained by some cowardice, I still think that his overall actions were courageous.

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  17. I believe that Hector acted very cowardly throughout most of this reading, but I think that he still retains his courage. It's obvious that he is a courageous warrior, but this reading was not a good example of that. I noticed that Hector is very confident in his words but not so much in his actions. He didn't fight Achilles until he had an "ally" there, and then when he had absolutely no other choice.

    However, I believe it took tremendous courage to beg for mercy and ask to be returned to the Trojans, and Achilles' refusal to do so only shows weakness on Achilles' behalf. Although Hector didn't show very much courage throughout the beginning and middle of this reading, he did show courage in his final moments alive. The question must be asked though; does the fact that he only showed true courage (in my opinion) because he know there would be no consequences discount the fact that he showed any courage at all? Just something to ponder...

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  18. Discerning the line between cowardice and courage is difficult. Especially since I believe at times you can demonstrate both. Hector's flight is an example of one of these situations. Truly courageous men and women never lose the drive that provides them courage. Fleeing is usually percieved as an act of weakness or cowardice but it is not always so. In fact there is much honor and courage in what Hector does. The only cowardice Hector shows is when he initially hides behind his excessive pride. When he flees, he regains his honor and courage. His archrival Achilles is far greater and stronger than he. Who is Hector to needlessly sacrifice himself, the symbol and hope of an entire people, for the sake of trying to bolster his pride or his legacy? As he begins his flight, the pointlessness of his situation dawns on him. All he would have accomplished is his own death and the loss of his people's hope and giving the highest glory to the leader of his foes. Therefore when he commits a seemingly cowardly act of running he is in truth realizing his true weakness,pride, which takes an outstanding amount of courage. Hector's courage is magnified by the fact that he does this in front of his people and his foes. He does not submit to his pride and the pointless fate that awaited him on that pat but attempts to salvage his cities hope and the chance of victory he can offer them. However it was too late, he did not overcome his pride soon enough and his fate was sealed. The act of fleeing was not the act of cowardice, that was hiding behind his pride. Hector shows courage by commiting an act of seemingly cowardice. Cowards delude themselves about what they are worth and what they can accomplish. Courageous people realize what is entrusted to them and most importantly realize their weaknessess.

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  19. Hector behaved cowardly in running from Achilles. As a soldier, he has a duty to use physical force to defend his city and his people with his life. A wise individual is not afraid of death because death is an inevitability of life beyond our control. Hector's succumbing to a fear of death reveals him as unwise, and results in him appearing uncourageous. Through failure to fulfill his nature as a soldier, and failure to behave wisely/courageously in his final moments, Hector dies dishonorably at the hands of Achilles.

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  20. Albert Einstein became an icon for science and changed the world with his "Theory of Relativity," but did not finish his high school education. Harry Potter, instead of facing Voldemort in the graveyard in his fourth year, flees back to safety with nothing but Cedric's body and his life. Rosa Parks courageously refused to give up her bus seat to a white person, but what of all the times she acquiesced and found a new one? (Credit to Dr. Layne for that one.) The reason behind these seeming random historical and literary allusions is to support my thinking towards Hector's flight: should a great hero--whether that be a revolutionary, scientist, or warrior--be stripped of all their greatness because of one moment of weakness? Should instead, Einstien be ridiculed for his lack of education? Should Harry Potter be remembered for his fleeing from imminent death? Of course not. And the same should be applied to Hector. One cannot possibly rob him of all his courageous and valiant actions simply because, in the end, he performed (as what Kirby called) an instinctive human reaction. After reading the text, despite Hector's fleeing from Achilles, I could see Hector as nothing but the Hero of the Iliad. Perhaps this is because of Achilles' vicious and barbaric behavior in contrast. Hector did mistakenly kill Achilles cousin Patroclus, but is this any reason to drag the desecrated body of Hector through the dirt and mud? Is there ever a good enough reason for such an atrocity? Hector tries to explain to Achilles that if Hector is the victor, he would bring his body back to his men. Although Achilles brushes off this pact, one cannot forget what a noble statement Hector proposed. Achilles was war-crazy, practically starving for Hector's blood on his spear. But still Hector says he'd bring his body back! (In Ancient Greece, a proper burial was EVERYTHING.) This is what stuck out in my mind, not Hector's fleeing from battle. This is what I will remember Hector, the great breaker of horses, for: his courage shown off the battlefield.

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  21. Hector is a coward, no questions asked. He ran because he was scared of death, and we made it clear in our first discussion that part of courage was standing up to what scared you. By running from Achilles, he shows that even the strongest men may fall to their fears when confronted by the possibility of death.

    I'm not saying that it was not the smart thing to do. When faced with imminent death, the most courageous men waver, and Hector is no different, he just chose the coward's way out. By running he at least had a chance at survival, so it was the wise decision, but wisdom does not courage make. Sometimes it takes a bit of blind ignorance to be courageous.

    For a man to make the hard decision of admitting defeat takes a lot of moral strength, because if he lives, he would have to constantly be on the run, in fear of humiliation.

    Like I said, although Hector made the wise decision to run, it was far from courageous.

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  22. I wouldn't have such a negative view of Hector had I not know the rational behind his initial desire to face Achilles outside the walls. I think he is a very cowardly character not because of his actions, but because of the reasons behind his actions.

    Hector is afraid to face Achilles, and rightfully so. Note that fear is not cowardice; cowardess usually usually attaches to an action in the same way courage does. We see that he weighs his options: "No way out. If I slip inside the gates and walls, Polydamas will be the first to heap disgrace one me..." In this case, I think preserving his own life and going back inside the gates would be A) the right thing to do, the good thing (out of self preservation and consideration for Troy's need for him) and B) the most courageous action possible, because he would have had to stand up to the shame of appearing to surrender. He would rather die and preserve his dignity than to sacrifice.

    Look at it this way. Staying outside and fighting Achilles is a win-win situation to Hector (he hadn't considered the fact that Achilles would dishonor his body in such a way, I don't think). He either returns triumphant with Achilles dead, or dies in battle, which is the greatest honor a warrior could dream of attaining. Both of these would bring his name praise and glory. So really, there was nothing courageous in staying outside at all. In fact, in addition to cowardice, it was stupidity, because there was no way that his actions would bring any benefit to Troy in any fashion whatsoever.

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  23. Hector’s flight was a rational result of his fear, he had already shown courage when he decided to stand in front of the gates and wait for Achilles despite the fact that he had ample time to escape. We generally don’t gauge courage on a moment-to-moment basis because it is impractical to say a person who dismantled a bomb is courageous and then say he is a coward when he finds a bomb he can’t dismantle and runs away. I would excuse Hector’s perceived cowardliness on the same principle because he knew that he couldn’t actually escape his fate. A coward is someone who will avoid, at all cost anything they find unpleasant, but Hector was seeking to prolong the time before his death. Hector was courageous but when he realizes that his pride had gotten the best of his courage he knew that his mistake had cost him his life. From that perspective calling Hector a coward would be like calling a boxer a coward when he doges a punch.

    That being said, it was fear that drove Hector to stand outside the gates in the first place. Some would say that that in its self makes Hector a coward but, they are forgetting his god like status among the Trojans was gained through his consistent display of courage. A moment of cowardice does not disqualify pervious courage even if in that moment the cowardice is particularly disappointing.

    Hector was courageous but he chose to display that he was courageous in a foolish manner.

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  24. If someone asked me if running away in fear is a cowardly action, I'd probably answer in the affirmative, but Hector made me change my mind. True, Hector feared Achilles, but the presence of fear does not make someone a coward. Even acting on that fear by running away does not make Hector a coward because his fear is appropriate for his circumstance. Achilles is by far the superior warrior, so Hector had a right to be afraid. I think of Hector's situation in terms of a bull fight. If a charging bull was ragin towards me, I would run away in fear, but that doesn't make me a coward. Hector had to make the age old choice between fight or flight, and he chose the one option that would give him a greater chance at survival. Hector's flight, therefore, was not a cowardly action but a last resort for self preservation.

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  25. I believe that Hector’s flight was a momentary lapse of courage in an otherwise courageous man. He previously proved his strength and courage fighting for his city, and continued by waiting for the advancing Achilles at the gates of Troy. He certainly acted cowardly when he fled from the sight of Achilles. He allowed fear to overcome his strong personality. But his fear was only the product of human instinct. Humans are the only mammals that second guess their abilities. Hector second guessed his own strength and courage, and paid for it in the end. He met an honorable but brutal end at the hands of Achilles (with help from Athena). He even tried to make a reasonable bargain with Achilles before fighting, promising to return his body to his people if Achilles would do the same for him. This honorable attempt shows the attributes of a “good man.” Courage, like all virtues, can be fleeting but this does not mean that one never possessed them at all.

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  26. The question that I would raise is this: what is the difference between a contest of fighting ability and a contest of speed? Achilles is known for being the fastest man around, yet Hector decides to forgo a direct altercation in favor of a contest of speed and endurance. Either way he is still in direct physical competition with Achilles. Furthermore, it was Hector's decision to be in that situation in the first place. He had the courage to stand alone and wait for Achilles to approach. This act of boldness surely outweighs something as trivial as which contest of physical ability Hector chose. Hector is not a coward. Instead, our conventional standards irrationally lead us to believe that fighting it out is more brave than racing it out. Why?

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  27. It has been said that the difference between courage and stupidity is success. However, this isn't exactly the case (in my opinion, at least). I agree that there is a fine line between courage and stupidity, and that both are determined by certain criteria - especially logic and emotion. It's a rather simple litmus test: if logic is in favor of an action, while emotion is not, then the result is courage. Similarly, if logic is against an action, but emotion is for it, then it is stupidity, and when logic and emotion agree it is neither, merely the correct decision.

    With the logic behind Hector facing Achilles remaining relatively constant (that is, there was a very slim chance that he could win), it is primarily his emotional state that fluctuates. As Hector first stood alone at the gates, awaiting the coming of Achilles, he was acting in pure, dense hubris in preferring death to a life of ridicule from his comrades. When he then chose to run after spotting Achilles, it was a logically sound decision (other than thinking that he could outrun Achilles). It was only when Athena tricked him into thinking that he had military support that the logic changed, but so too did his emotional state so that he was once again choosing the logical action - if we forgive the dramatic irony for a moment.

    Ultimately, though, I cannot say that Hector was courageous in Book 22. He did have a lapse into illogic, but overall I would say that Hector is an intelligent individual (though I have not read the other books, so I am certainly not one to say definitively one way or the other). But he certainly has other redeeming values, including strength, honor, and love. Courageous? No. But a good man? Absolutely.

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  28. Hector’s previous actions had placed him in a situation where he could have either lost his life or lost his respect. He was given the choice to retreat back to Troy, but if he did that, then he would have gone back on everything he stood for. This would, without a doubt, destroy his reputation and lose the respect of his men. Thus, Hector decided to do the only honorable thing and face Achilles. The problem with Hector’s decision was that it was either one or the other. He could not survive and still have respect but he could die with honor. His decision to flee from his planned confrontation with Achilles publicly depicted him as the ultimate coward. Not only was he slain with little resistance, but due to it occurring after attempting to flee Achilles only hurt Hector’s reputation. He was courageous for deciding to fight Achilles but that courage disappeared as soon as the actual confrontation neared. His actions left him no honor and little courage, thus brandishing him a coward.

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  29. Hector was a total wimp in this book. He knew he was the strongest fighter apart from Achilles, so I don't think it took a great deal of courage to fight the Achaeans in his previous fights. When his strength is finally given a challenge, he decides that he would rather keep his winning streak than face Achilles. He tries to convince himself that he is courageous before Achilles gets too close to him, but when it really matters, he chooses flight over fight.
    One can only be courageous if he/she feels afraid to do something, but does it anyway for some reason that the person feels is important. If one does not feel any fear for doing a task, he cannot be called courageous for doing it. Hector would have been really courageous had he chosen to fight Achilles in the hopes that he would save many lives, or for some other heroic reason, but he decided to flee instead. Although some may say that it was wise to flee because he knew he couldn't win, then he SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN OUT THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
    Hector doesn't ever obtain true courage to fight Achilles; he is tricked by Athena. He doesn't gather up the courage himself; he just doesn't want to look like a coward in front of his dead brother. Courage must be obtained by oneself in order to be considered courage. If someone convinces you to jump off a diving board, then you haven't gathered up the courage yourself; you have merely been pressured into jumping off. This is what happens to Hector.

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  30. In my humble opinion, Hector was cowardly in his decision to flee from Achilles, simply because his initial decision WAS to face Achilles head on. By not following through with this decision, he is committing cowardice. However, it should be noted that I do not consider him a pure coward because of his actions, because I do not believe that courage is a "zero-sum" quality. I do believe that in some cases, it does take courage to turn and run from something, such as leaving a friend behind in a dire situation (at his/er request) when all your being is wanting to help him/her. It should also be noted that, in my opinion, an excess of courage can be a bad thing, i.e. in hotheadedness or overconfidence. However, that is obviously not Hector's situation.

    His actions are justifiable in that he wishes to retain his honor. As we talked about in class today, Greeks hold honor above all else, even their life. However, in Hector's case, if he were to die to Achilles, there is no honor gained, since he is sure that Achilles will humiliate and desecrate his dead body (i.e. feed it to the dogs and birds, etc.). He does seem to regain what little hint of courage he has left when his brother (Athena in disguise) comes to his "aid". He confronts Achilles head on after seeing his brother, regaining his courage. However, he only does so because he is sure he has a partner to help him win. That in itself seems not to be true courage, since he cannot face his own problems by himself.

    Even near death Hector, to me, embraces cowardice. His plead for mercy is a cowardly act in my eyes, because he cannot accept death, perhaps because he fears it, as any human being would. He tries to bargain for his with Achilles, offering riches and freedom. It reminds me of any Hollywood cliché where a villain, hanging onto life by the skin of his teeth, begs the hero for mercy by bribing (although I am by no means implying that I think Hector is the villain nor Achilles the hero). Embracing and accepting death, a most unknown experience in somebody's life cycle, is a brave act in my mind. By attempting to escape it is to show fear, and thus cowardice

    In that end, Hector's flight is indeed a cowardly act in my opinion. However, he is merely trying to conserve his honor (although it is rather ironic, since cowardice is mostly seen as a dishonorable act). I do not think courage is something one can ALWAYS or NEVER have. It is something gained in accordance to the situation. It just so happens that Hector's situation of facing an opponent much fiercer and much more powerful than him has sapped him of his courage.

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  32. I believe courage is not a virtue one possesses all of the time, nor does the possession of cowardice cancel said courage. Hector’s flight not only does not take away from his courage but adds to it. This stray from the bravery he initially shows by camping outside of Troy’s walls proves just how frightened Hector really is. Rightly so I say, Achilles being an enraged demi-god and Hector being fully human. I have heard that courage is not truly present unless there is fear to overcome, and it makes sense. What value does courage and bravery have if my grandmother (this is a generalized version of grandmother- Mawnan could slay Achilles with her left hand) could step up and take the blow?

    When Hector thinks he receives back-up from his brother, Deiphobus, he then decides to stop running and fight Achilles. Arguably, this could mean he was too much of a ninny to go out and bravely face his battle, but only a lunatic with no value for his life or an imbecile would fight “the matchless runner” alone. Hector was certainly aware that he couldn’t run forever, and by delaying his death he seemingly gains an ally. Aid which does not even give Hector an edge over Achilles, but makes him equal. Hector’s courage is further solidified by his reaction upon realizing he is alone. To flee again would make both flights a sign of true cowardice; on the contrary, Hector is slaughtered without shame or dishonor on his conscience.

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  33. In principle Hector's flight wasn't courageous. He knew that he would have to face the immortal Achilles eventually, but rather than facing him honorably he fled. The courageous thing to do obviously would have been to face Achilles.

    But is his flight cowardly? Perhaps not. He was courageous enough to at least attempt to save his own life; he knew Achilles was after him and only him at this point, and he decided to attempt to outrun him, to chance fate and live.

    I excuse Hector's flight with fear. He's simply afraid of death.

    The question I would like to raise is this: is cowardice simply equated to fear? Or is cowardice the lack of courage? Hector knew he was going to die if he faced Achilles, and he fears death... so he ran against all odds. I find that courageous.

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  34. When I read the second paragraph in the question, I couldn't help but think biology for some reason, which brought about “fight or flight” and the response you have to a certain situation based solely on the amount of adrenaline someone receives. There weren't any triggers that said to take things into a scientific perspective, but if we're talking about the self and one's personality specifically, a little psychology might do some good.
    Looking at the status of courage from this perspective, “courage” could definitely be a dynamic trait in someone. There is a fine line between courage and sheer stupidity, and Hector was trying to define where the line was. Trying to take on Achilles in the state he was (“Like the god of war” and “bronze around his body flared like a raging fire or the rising, blazing sun.”) would be absolutely stupid, and would only put Hector's life in peril. This was not a cowardly act, but rather one of preservation.
    Everyone has an instinct that says “save your life at all costs.” Hector was just acting on this it. He just had fuel towards the end because of the vision of his brother, which increased his morale, which might have some correlation to courage and the “fight” in fight or flight. Whatever his incentive was, his “reaction rate” was increased, and didn't necessarily increase his “courage” per say, but rather his rashness. So maybe courage has something to do with confidence in one's self and how rash you are to act upon the situation placed in front of you in as offensive manner.

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  35. For Hector to avoid battle for his parent's and city sake would not have been cowardly. But he didn't. Hector made a conscious decision to fight Achilles, and lost his nerve at the last moment. "[H]e fled in fear", so his flight could be construed as cowardly. I do consider it a momentary failing of courage, but I would certainly lay no blame on him for it. I probably would have taken whatever action I could have to avoid death in his stead as long as I did not believe it to be evil or deeply dishonorable. But I don't think he needs an excuse. Few people have infinite and perfect courage. Most have a stopping point, a point at which they will sacrifice pride or status to preserve their life. In fact, courage is best tempered by prudence. Life is precious and I respect preserving it, especially when death would serve no purpose but the preservation of honor. Had Hector successfully retreated and lived, the members of his family and the citizens of his city all would have been happier and better protected.

    This being said, Hector is depicted as a very brave man. He risks his life to protect his people on many occasions and eventually dies for them. Even the last words Achilles scorned Hector for were brave and selfless. Instead of uttering oaths or high speeches, Hectors asks that his body will not be desecrated after his death. Hector (being dead) will not suffer from damage to his corpse, but he makes the request to his mortal enemy in order to spare his own family and people from additional pain. I doubt Hector wanted to spend his last breaths begging his enemy for anything, but he did for his family's sake. That took selfless courage, which is of a completely different brand than the machismo that permeates the rest of the Iliad, and I have tremendous respect for it and Hector.

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  36. I do not find Hector's flight a cowardly idea in itself- in fact, it seems rather prudent, as it is well nigh impossible to fight and win against Achilles, but perhaps speed is somewhere Hector thinks he has an edge, so the decision makes sense on the surface.
    However, throughout Book 22, Hector's wavering decision making (deciding to fight, then running, then fighting, etc.), reveals cowardice to me, mostly in being the opposite of my conception of courage. Courage in this situation is about keeping a clear head, even when it is the most difficult thing to od, because Hector decided himself to take the burden of keeping Achilles at bay, for the safety of all. This was a courageous act, but when fear clouds his mind and he almost fails to follow through, he becomes cowardly. Also, although I find some aspect of prudence and cunning in Hector's flight, his own words reveal the situation as cowardice- "Three times I fled around the great city of Priam- I lacked courage then to stand your onslaught" (297-8). This statement supports his inability to carry out decisions, revealing him as a coward.

    However, although I do not excuse his flight, the display of cowardice does not cancel out the courage of Hector's past. It is certainly possible for one man to be both courageous and cowardly, just as it is possible, and fairly common, to support one political party almost entirely save for one or tow aspects of their platform. I think we all agree that Hector manages a few displays of courage i Book 22, and I don’t really need to point them out again, but for me, this was a weak book for Hector- after raeding this, I only know he is brave because I know his history. His entire life as a courageous warrior is not canceled out by his final flight. Personally, I remember both equally- Hector is just a man with flaws.

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  37. I think courage is something that comes and goes, probably depending on the situation. Some people may act courageously in a certain situation and in others, act cowardly. I think some people may be more disposed towards acting courageously, but it's definitely a quality that can be developed.

    I define a coward as a person who feels fear and chooses to let the fear control them. The courageous can feel fear, but they fight through the fear. Being courageous doesn't mean not being afraid, being courageous means being able to endure through the fear. I also believe that a person does not have to be scared to be courageous. Just because they aren't afraid in the situation doesn't imply that they are any less courageous. For example, King Leonidas in the movie 300 did not show or imply any fear throughout the war, yet his actions were certainly courageous. So I guess what I want to say is that actions are what determines if a person is courageous or not, anything else, such as emotions or anything, is just extra information to be considered

    I don't think of Hector as a coward. He was definitely frightened out of his mind, and perhaps he did only turn in fight because he thought he saw his brother, but at the end of it all, he knew he was going to die, and choose to fight as a hero. I found his actions to be heroic and very courageous. I don't think the fact that he ran very very long to try get away from Achilles should define him as a character. He had many reasons to run, the most important being that he was a father and a son.
    But his running away is definitely a cowardly act, but I do not believe it detracts from his courage or his courageous qualities. Even the best sometimes have their bad days.

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  38. In the beginning, Hector tried to be courageous but at soon as he saw Achilles, his nerve failed him. At this point was where the line between cowardliness and courage was defined. It is only natural to have fear, but the difference between the fearful courageous and cowardly people lie in their action. Instead of mustering up his strength, Hector took flight, and this action in my book, defines him as a coward. I believe that it does take away from the anticipated courage because he put himself at risk, and at that point of no return, all the build up was wasted.

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  39. I believe that Hector’s decision to flee was a courageous one. Hector knew that he was not going to win in a one-on-one confrontation with Achilles and in most cases, I would see someone who stood there as a courageous person and the one who fled as a coward. However, in this situation, I think that Hector had to be a little courageous to decide that his life was more valuable to him than his honor. Since Hector wanted to save himself, the only option possible was to run, but when he realized that he was not going to outrun Achilles, his only option was to fight. Although he needed encouragement from Athena disguised as his brother, I believe that hector was still acting courageously since Hector could have refused to listen to the advice and continue to run until Achilles caught up to him. Furthermore, when Hector realizes that the gods have tricked him, he continues to fight to the death. I think that courage can be seen as doing something even after considering the negative consequences and being terrified by them. In that sense, I believe that Hector acted courageously.

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  40. I really don't go much in for name-calling, of you're a coward he is brave. Hector runs three times around the city for his life and I don't think anyone in the Iliad and definitely not Homer would come out like a mean little bully boy and call Hector a coward. I have never been a fan of Hector, he talks too much about virtue and is too mean to Paris who I think is the coolest of the gang. It's Hector's fault Troy falls, if he'd stop making it seem like Troy were doomed and that they due to Paris almost deserve that fate or that the enemy's so hugely invincibly great, maybe then someone else would stand up to fight instead of leaving it all on that self-pitied martyr Hector. Hector usually gets the sentimental pious vote, but he made himself what he is and he's really just toying with our emotions. He's the least honest of the whole bunch, he sounds almost Christian instead of a Hellene. There are many pitiful good moments like when on the walls he holds his son up in his hands or like when he's being chased around the wall like a mouse from a cat, but I wouldn't call him a coward for that--whether he chose his fate or not, it's his and he's got to do what he's got to do. Yeah, Hector got a little snotty sure of himself when the gods--whom he fears more than trusts, unlike the other real heroes like Achilles or Diomedes--finally back him but that's cuz he's acting out and saying like oh yeah look at me, look at me, I've got gods on my side now, whatcha gonna do? But that's stupid. he just doesn't have that great Homeric virtue of making the gods like you and trusting/accepting your fate. He really is less pious and less god-respecting even than that jerk Diomedes when he pricks poor Aphrodite's arm. Whether Hector is a coward or not, I can't really tell but when he runs at least he starts to show a little honesty and begins to accept his fate. That act is Hector's finest, truest moment as far as I've seen.

    Daniel Hoppes

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  41. In other sources, Hector is killed in an ambush by Achilies... not this dramatic story of chasing him three times around the city... the city was too large to be ran around three times.. so this is exageration....

    Ali

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  42. the REAL COWARDS were the ones who besiged Troy and huugely outnumbered Trojans. why didnt they come in equal numbers if they were really BRAVE ?

    Its is bloody disgusting that war mongors like ACHILIES are celeberated as heros

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  43. I wish instead of Trojans, the nefarious greeks had a fight with Muslims

    Ali, the lion of God

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